Meandering thoughts on the joy of starting trial again

In this episode of The Velvet Hammer, Karen Koehler sits down to record before she begins another trial in Seattle. She discusses her love for the courtroom, leading an all-female legal team, and why retirement isn't on her radar.  Kohler addresses the unique questions and challenges female trial lawyers face, offering insights into gender dynamics within the legal profession. 

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Transcript

The velvet hammer, an inside look at trial lawyer life with Karen Koehler. Real life stories about fighting the good fight.

Well, I'm going into trial on Monday on another case.

This time, Debbie Silberman is going to be my second. And shannon, uh, is doing our primary briefing. And then Cheryl and Debbie are paralegal, so, all female squad.

And I'm 63,

and people want to know why I'm still practicing law and going to trial and not starting to think about retiring.

I don't understand that question.

Why aren't you retiring, Karen? You got what you need. You don't have anything to prove. But what does that even mean? I want to talk about why I want to go to trial, why I love it, why I'm so privileged to be able to do it, and why this.

I don't feel like a clock is ticking on me. So, to begin this journey,

if we go back to the beginning, and I've listened to some of these podcasts, you know that while I did try my first case at the age of 26, right when I came out of law school, and, uh, have always tried cases, I really did step back from the practice of law when my children were being raised for about a nine year period of time, from the time the oldest one was born until the youngest one was getting ready to start kindergarten.

And that didn't mean I didn't try cases, because I did. But I wasn't practicing law the way that I've practiced law ever since, which is full out, full throttle, massive, uh, amounts of practicing law. And that kind of delayed entry into the true frenzy of being 100%, um, all the time, m go around trial lawyer.

Those nine precious years,

I, um, think, play a role in where I am today. So, I have been practicing law since 1986. It's now 2024,

is that right? 1986, 2024? Nope. I don't even know. I think I started practicing law when I was, uh, in 1985. Regardless, I am at about almost 30, ah, eight years of practicing law, heading into my 39th. You're practicing law. But if you take out nine years of,

uh, the frenzy of it, part of it, um, 30 years, still a long time. But for whatever reason, I do not feel that I'm done, that I have done everything I can do to help people, that I have accomplished everything I need accomplished, that there's nothing more I need to learn.

Au contraire. Because this job, this job for me, is a constant source of humility. My children, who are a constant source of humility, still are. I get criticized by no one overall, more fiercely than my children, who do it lovingly but still speak the truth. Um, from what are you wearing to what are you doing?

They constantly challenge me. But this career constantly is constantly a challenge. Just when you think you know what you're doing, you don't. You always have to look up to double check. You always have to relearn. Currently, I've gotten involved in something I vowed I wouldn't get involved in, uh, which is, um, I've handled so many of these mass tort, mass disaster cases.

It's taken really such a toll on the firm, not just me, that I said, well, I'm not going to do those. I'm going to kind of just dial back. But instead, this past week, I was added on to our boeing at, uh, 1282. Uh, as Trevor Noah said in his comedy routine, the window that became a door that blew off the airplane case came on.

That case, as the executive, the trial attorney,

and I know nothing, I have to learn that product all over again. Every time you do a product case, you have to learn that product. You have to become your own expert in that little thing, that little area, that unique small area of a particular product. You don't have to know how the entire product is put together, but you have to know everything about what went wrong and why.

That's true for all product cases. Really true for all cases. You have to become a mini expert. That, to me, is just thrilling. I never get tired of it. I never get bored of it. It always knocks me back. I don't know what I'm doing. I'll say I need to learn it.

And I think that is why I just don't feel like I'm done, like I'm not doing the same case over and over and over again. Which, for an example, if you're an asbestos attorney, you're doing the same case over and over and over again. Different plaintiffs, same experts, same theories, same questions, same answers.

You can really become a really big expert in that field when you do things over and over again. But we don't. We're constantly changing because of our, you know, how our clients are getting injured. So that is, uh, you know, if you're a person that is easily bored or always wants a new challenge and doesn't mind the fact that after 39 years, they may not be an expert on a topic, they have to relearn it all over again or learn it because they never knew it on a specific product or medical device or medical procedure or crash dynamic.

If you don't mind being humbled and rising to that challenge, then this is a good career for you.

And then I've talked about this before. Our career is not an ageist one. I have friends that are in professions that are very ageist, where they are deemed obsolete in their field, especially in entertainment, and have to reinvent themselves and then eke out a more marginalized

existence. Music industry, for example.

Here, the older you become, the wiser you become. Unlike, um, athletics, where you are going to peak out after normally less than a decade in the sport, longevity equals more success.

Again, these are generalities, but the longevity in a firm like this, which is super high end, um, it's just wonderful. So, as I'm going into trial, this will be the second trial. We are now in the month of March. This will be the second trial I've had this year.

I have a new judge that I haven't been in front of before, and each judge is different. Each judge, even if they're in adjacent courthouses, they have different roles, they have different tweaks, they have different ways of doing things, different tolerances, different desires, different commands, different procedures. You see, you gotta learn everything really quickly, because it's all gonna be different.

So, super excited to be in front of a new judge, new bailiff, new clerk, new courtroom. This one, I think, has windows, which is super fun. And then the whole experience of meeting new jurors, new potential jurors that you've never met before that you're gonna talk to for the first time.

It's the most heady, heady experience that I have in my career as a trailer, uh, is to be in trial.

Now, is there a time when I should probably stop being a trial lawyer? Probably. When will that be? I don't know, and I don't care to know. I'm, um, gonna keep going until someone says, Karen, I think you should, like, reconsider. Now, I've seen trial lawyers that probably shouldn't be trial lawyers, and normally it doesn't have to do with age.

I suspect that by the time I need to stop being a trial lawyer, I'll know it. But as Madonna says,

I'm still having fun. Why should I even think about it? I don't care. And unlike Madonna, I'm not going to criticize for having wrinkles on my face,

although I guess she doesn't have any wrinkles. But I'm not going to be criticized for growing older as a trial lawyer. So lucky in that regard.

So people ask very, um, interesting questions of me as a trial lawyer. I've given several speeches now, this year, to schools, law schools. Some of the questions are really interesting, and I sometimes wonder, do men, trial lawyers, get the same questions? I would think maybe some of them and a lot, none of not.

I don't think any male lawyer has ever been asked by a law student audience, what do they wear to court?

What is the proper attire to wear to court if you're a woman? Is a big question that I'm always asked. What should I wear to court? How many trial lawyers that are men, if you're listening to this in your trial, or men have ever been asked that question, I guarantee you the answer is zero.

Guarantee you the answer is zero.

There's other interesting questions like that.

How do you balance work and life? How many male people. How many male people can ask that question? Uh, by law students? I guarantee you, if it's not zero, it's next to zero.

So part of me continuing to be a trial lawyer is just because, like, why wouldn't I? If you were looking at me as a man, you would never say, Karen, um, why are you still practicing law at the old age of 63? I'm thinking, well, you know, I have partners that practice into their seventies full time.

Why are you asking me? I don't remember anyone asking that of any of my partners, unless they started becoming closer to their eighties and or had a medical issue.

Well, you might think, Karen, is this all you ever think about? Are all these, you know, gender questions, or. Um. Yeah, and the answer is no. I actually, in my real life day, never think about these things. It's only when I sit down to write or speak about a topic like this that I actually think about it.

Isn't that weird when you think about it? Because it is a defining characteristic of me, and it's a defining part of my experience as a trial lawyer that I have been

othered quite a bit throughout my career

and continue to be, which is, again, so stupid, and I don't even care. But it's the truth.

If I was more focused on this in my day to day, I think it would have hindered me, to be honest. I think I would not have been able to avoid having a chip on my shoulder. That kind of a presence, um, where I was on guard, the type of presence where you had to be fearful that if you looked at me or said something wrong to me, I would go off on you.

I've never been known for that, because that's not how I am. I ignore every single thing that I talk about with respect to prejudice, discrimination, being marginalized or otherwise othered. Or the unfairness or the differences involved in being a hopa female attorney in the eighties nineties, two thousands, two thousand and ten s.

And now two thousand and twenty s.

I love being a trial lawyer. I love everything about it. I love my law firm. I love the career that I've had. And mainly I love it because I'm so positive and I ignore the bad stuff

until I don't have to. And then I just speak the truth.

If you are a lawyer who gets up in my face and tries to dominate me

by mansplaining or whatever else you do, it's not going to work. By now people know that. But it has never been because I'm consumed by the reality of what I've just talked to you about. It's never been that

I'm of the school where I only acknowledge it when I have to or when I want to. Otherwise I put it away and put on my boxing gloves

and punch as quick and fast as I can.

So here to. Here is to going to trial. I'm so looking forward to it. I love the creative process. This is the third trial in a row that I've had against the same attorney. And even then I can't wait.

Over and out.