The Velvet Hammer™ Podcast

Trial lawyers can be real people, too—and this podcast proves it. The Velvet Hammer™ is back, and this time, Karen Koehler isn’t going it alone. Known for her fearless advocacy, bold storytelling, and, yes, even the occasional backwards dress moment, Karen is teaming up with Mo Hamoudi, a lawyer, poet, and storyteller whose empathy and resilience add a whole new dynamic to the show.

Together, they’re pulling back the curtain on trial law, diving into bold topics, heartfelt stories, and the messy, hilarious moments that make trial lawyers human. This is an unscripted, raw, and fun take on life inside—and outside—the courtroom.

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The Velvet Hammer™ Podcast

The Perils Of Overcommitment

May 20, 2026 • Karen Koehler and Mo Hamoudi • Season 6 • Episode 19

0:00 | 19:28

Karen asks Mo and Mike about professional and personal commitments and how they affect our lives. Do you find you overcommit in your life? Listen to our conclusions.

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Hosted by Karen Koehler and Mo Hamoudi, trial lawyers at Stritmatter Law, a nationally recognized plaintiff personal injury and civil rights law firm based in Washington State.

Produced by Mike Todd, Audio & Video Engineer, and Kassie Slugić, Executive Producer.

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Why Commitment Matters

Karen Koehler 0:05

Okay, this sounds like a terrible topic, but I actually think it's great.

Mo Hamoudi 0:09

What's the topic?

Karen Koehler 0:11

Committing and commitment.

Mo Hamoudi 0:13

Committing and commitment. To what? And to whom?

Karen Koehler 0:15

And why is it cool?

Mo Hamoudi 0:18

Why is it cool to commit?

Karen Koehler 0:19

Why is it important?

Mo Hamoudi 0:20

I don't know, Mike. Why is commitment important?

Mike Todd 0:24

Well, let me say.

Karen Koehler 0:25

Oh, why is Mike?

Mike Todd 0:26

I think commitment is. I mean, it depends on where you're talking about it, but like in relationships, it's the basis of trust.

Karen Koehler 0:32

So yeah. Well, so there's personal commitment, there's work commitment, there's marriage commitment, family commitment, friend commitment. There's all levels of commitment.

Mo Hamoudi 0:44

Do we want to talk about personal or professional? Well, I think we're talking about professional, right?

Trust And The Many Kinds Of Commitment

When Staying Loyal Does Damage

Karen Koehler 0:48

I think that yeah, I think that they're intertwined. Um they are. So I'll I'll give you a personal example and then how it plays out professionally. So as you know, I'm divorced as of 26 years ago. Um, yeah, 26 years ago. Oh my god. Oh my gosh. Can you believe that? Huh. Um, and I thought when you get married, you just stay married. So we had troubles um for five years before we actually divorced. Um, I mean, serious trouble. And I refused to undo that commitment until I mean, I should have gotten divorced five years before. I should have at least, I shouldn't have done that. It really kind of, it really kind of did some damage to stay, to stay out of pure commitment. That's how strongly I believe in commitment. Okay. I should have left, but I didn't. Um, and I had children, so there's reasons for that. So if you take it to my my professional life, um, as you know, before about last year, I used to speak around the country constantly. And then I stopped. I I was able to stop during COVID and just do it remotely. And after that, I said, well, I have grandchildren now, and I I'm not gonna do continue to do that. There was one year, and this is not an aberration, but this is the worst thing that happened. I had pneumonia. I didn't know it at first, then it was diagnosed. I knew it at the time, and I had a speaking engagement in Atlanta, and I went to it.

Mo Hamoudi 2:32

Oh boy, what happened?

Showing Up Sick For Work

Karen Koehler 2:34

I went to it. I looked like hell, and I gave a really great speech to a very big crowd because this is when Colossus was um first uh it was an insurance um evaluation software program, and so I was really kind of giving talks because I did a lot of insurance bad faith about what it was, how it worked. So it was a very large crowd to hear that. And as I did back in those days, I would go, I would give it, spend one night, and then come home. And that's exactly what I did. And I can remember on being on that plane, like practically hallucinating, thinking I should have just why can't I just cancel things? Yeah, why do I always take things so strong? I when I taught, I taught law school for seven years with Bill Bailey, and I was in there after trial. I did not take off because I was in trial. I went in there after trial. It didn't start until like five or five thirty, so I could always make it. That's crazy. Um, so that is my credo, and it's just something that it I've always had. When we took our personality tests here in the office for our coaching, what my number one was strategic, my number two is responsibility. And it's just there. So not I don't think I don't think that a lot of people think about that. I think we just look at who shows up and who doesn't, and we just kind of take it for granted. Oh, they showed up or they didn't show up, or you know, so many times I'd be at an AEJ conference, for example, and there would be a pitch hitter because the person couldn't make it for some particular reason or not. Normally not trial. Trial, you always understand that reason. But another, I cannot imagine make making a commitment and then not following through on it. It's just part of my moral the way I was raised, I think, by my parents, and that's why I feel it. Even when it's totally stupid that I would stay. So that's how I wanted to start it.

Mo Hamoudi 5:01

Okay. That's I mean, for me, I think professional commitment commitment to me is loyalty. And uh I am loyal to the commitment. And so I like really will extend myself and sometimes I think to my own detriment.

Karen Koehler 5:22

That's what I'm gonna talk about more. Is like this is not a self-righteous episode, though.

Mo Hamoudi 5:26

No, it's not.

Karen Koehler 5:27

Commitments good, and commitments should be kept. I think we can all agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Oh, yeah.

Karen Koehler 5:32

But I take it too far sometimes. I do. I just gave you two examples.

Mike Todd 5:36

Too many commitments is what you were doing. Like, that's the thing. You're you're you're committing too much of your time to your so dang wise.

The Hidden Cost Of Overcommitting

Karen Koehler 5:44

But that is so true. Like when I was president of WSAJ, I went to every committee meeting. I went to every single round table around the state at least once. I had so many miles on my car because there was no such thing as Zoom. I I wanted to know every single thing. It was like a full-time job. I've spent at least 30 or 40 hours a week, plus there's initiatives. Anything I do, even at the office, I tend to overcommit. So there's a good, there's good sides to it. I get a lot of stuff done. The organizations that I work with are happy about that. But there's a lot of bad parts to it. Um and so that's what I want to focus on is we all agree it's good to keep your commitment whenever possible. This is not a moral high ground issue.

Mike Todd 6:34

No.

Karen Koehler 6:35

But what happens when you are keeping it over all else?

Mike Todd 6:39

Well, that's the thing. You're when you're talking about professional commitments, you're or or any for that matter. I mean, for me, it was I don't do it as much anymore. Like I still keep my commitments, but I don't give myself out as much anymore.

Karen Koehler 6:54

Well, you've given us some of those stories, like when your band have a gig, and then you didn't get paid. You're the one that arranged for every single person to get back and you did it without getting paid.

Mike Todd 7:05

Well, it was it wasn't just that. When I worked in Seattle, I had a daytime job, but then I would work for bands at nighttime. So um I was either working for the clubs or for individual bands, and so you know, like from 20, from age 20 to age, I don't know, 40. I was regularly working times where I would work, you know, a 40-hour week, and then every night I would work from 6 to 2:30 or 3 a.m. and then go to sleep and go, then, then have to go unload all the gear and stuff and get home at about five and sleep for a few hours and go to work.

Karen Koehler 7:45

Oh, unhealthy.

Mike Todd 7:46

And I did that for a long time. How long? And oh, I think I did that for like five years, and then I started working with tumoring man's, which is when you get into what you were talking about, where uh you know, you're going from one show to the next show. I'm getting like two, three hours of sleep at a time, and then maybe an hour of sleep at another time per day, where then the rest of the time, literally, we're either I'm either working or we're on the road where I'm trying to get stuff done before we get to the next show.

Mike’s Years Of Nonstop Gigs

Karen Koehler 8:16

So well, I can even say that I mean, Mike has worked here as long as I have, and probably the most dependable person. Like, if something goes wrong, Micah's gonna come over here, even like if something sets an alarm off, he's gonna be over here at two o'clock in the morning from West Seattle. Like, you are you you have routinely always done that. Yeah, there's anything that goes wrong.

Mike Todd 8:43

I was like four weeks out of heart surgery.

Karen Koehler 8:45

Yes.

Mike Todd 8:46

I remember that because you were here too.

Mo Hamoudi 8:48

Yeah, we came to the city. When the Berkin building got broken into that's right, that's right. I remember that. Yeah. You know, you guys, I mean, right now my commitments are I am We've been fighting, first of all.

Karen Koehler 8:59

We've been fighting about your commitments. Yeah, she's so she's so overcommitted.

Mo Hamoudi 9:03

I'm president of the Federal Bar Association, I'm on the board of Washington Innocence Project, I'm on the uh board of the Office of Law Enforcement Oversight for the County. I teach Law School twice a week currently. I have uh I hold open gyms for kids to play basketball. Um and um And you have a 12-year-old kid. And I have a 12-year-old kid and a wife and a wife and a long suffering.

Karen Koehler 9:29

And so um We're totally neglected.

Mo Hamoudi 9:34

Not really. Um and so um, but I can tell you what drives. And you like to play basketball and work out and work basketball and have friends, and have friends.

Karen Koehler 9:43

And I and what drives me is And you want to coach your kid again next year.

Mo Hamoudi 9:48

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 9:49

On top of everything.

Mo Hamoudi 9:50

Well, what drives me is what gives me the energy to do it, and um is that I feel like when people I feel like there's a need and people reach out to me, and then I want to meet the need, right? And I think that um so far I've not had somebody come to me and say, Hey, you made a commitment to do this project, and like you did not do it well. You failed, you didn't show up. So, like that haunt that concept, I like that is what like I will not let you down. I will be exceptional, I will give you my all, I will be my best. And um knock on wood.

Karen Koehler 10:35

Okay, enough of this self-congrating. I'm not, but wait, but wait. Well, here's let's talk about the fight.

Mike Todd 10:40

Well, let's go to the dark side. Let's go to the dark side.

Mo’s Calendar And The Coaching Fight

Karen Koehler 10:42

Let's talk about the fight, okay? I tell him, you cannot coach again next year. You cannot coach these kids. He made up a second team, and I mean, not only did he coach him, he had like the dinners afterwards, and he would take him on adventures and and all of this stuff, right? I said, No. He goes, You're right. I'm not gonna do it. And then two weeks later, he goes, Yeah, no, I'm gonna do it. Um and then I said, then okay, so what's gonna give? Well, nothing's gonna give. I can do it. I can do it.

Mo Hamoudi 11:13

I mean, I mean but but okay, so when I said, Can I talk about like you I said to you, I'm not gonna do it, and what like triggered me to want to do it? The kids no kid, but you gotta but I mean I'm just telling you, the kids came to me and said, and some and some and they said Mo? They said that was the best experience. Mo, you got to do it. Well, you're just like thinking. Well, just thinking, like, if Mo. Yeah.

Karen Koehler 11:42

Okay, Mike and Karen. Admit it. We all three stick to our commitments because we have a hero complex.

Mike Todd 11:53

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 11:54

We believe that if that we must do it.

Mike Todd 11:56

I believe it's my job.

Karen Koehler 11:57

We must do it.

Mike Todd 11:58

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 11:59

We owe it to them, and we're gonna do it. It's a hero complex. Admit it. Just say it. You haven't admitted it.

Mo Hamoudi 12:05

Yeah, it is a hero complex. I admit it.

Karen Koehler 12:08

No, not yet. I have I have a hero complex.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

My name is Mike and I have a hero complex. My name is Mo and I have a hero complex.

Karen Koehler 12:22

When you when you work as much as we do, I'm Mo.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

I Mo. You know, how are you doing today? I'm I'm doing it.

Karen Koehler 12:29

You know that you do it because you are getting rewarded. You feel like you there is a reward that happens when you're doing it. That's why we do it. And our reward is other people need us, or we have an accomplishment, or we, you know, we're do, we we get rewarded by doing. You feel validation. We do. Now other people don't. Other people are happy with other people doing their work and just taking all, you know, other people are motivated in different ways. We are motivated, all three of us, that we feel personal self-worth through our work.

Hero Complex And The Need For Validation

Mike Todd 13:03

And and volunteers. But the but the opposite for me, it's it's that commitment is where that comes from. Like knowing that I've honored that, not just being the hero, but it's part of it's all part of it. Good point as a whole. But I was where I was gonna go and talking about the dark side is the problem with that is then something has to suffer because you're you're putting your efforts into that. So, you know, like when I was doing that before, my personal life and my relationships were suffering because of that.

Karen Koehler 13:35

Yeah.

Mike Todd 13:36

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 13:37

So Mo, what's suffering?

Mike Todd 13:39

Well, can I just We don't want you to say anything except for admiring?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

We're just gonna keep going. So Mo, what do you have to say?

Mo Hamoudi 13:45

And this is well, and I can tell you, um well, uh honestly, that the if I don't, if I'm not into commitments, if I'm not doing these things, the opposite is is silence. And that's that's a problem for me. Like being alone, being silent with my thoughts, and my commitments.

Karen Koehler 14:09

I mean, I'm just telling you what you haven't written poetry in months.

Mike Todd 14:12

I well that's what I was gonna ask. Like, you just what you were just saying there, I was like, so you don't like silence. Where's your writing come from?

Mo Hamoudi 14:19

Well, I the the writing is the voice in my head speaking. Filling the silence. Filling the silence. But like just pure silence is not uh a good place for me.

Karen Koehler 14:31

There's no such thing.

Mo Hamoudi 14:32

I mean, I'm just saying, like just being with myself. I mean, it it that it is a you're asking me about like you're no, you're what's suffering, what and what's suffering is is that I'm avoiding sometimes suffering by being involved in commitments. When I overextend myself, then yes, I don't have more time to commit to my family. Because if I wasn't teaching, I would be home having a meal with my family. Okay.

Karen Koehler 15:01

So yes, that's so everything that's suffering is your personal life. So basically, what you told us is that your personal life suffers because of your desire to fulfill commitments to other people.

Mo Hamoudi 15:13

I think that's fair.

Karen Koehler 15:14

All right. So what are we gonna do about this? It's too late for me. I'm too old. Wait, I'm a lost cause.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Because you're not gonna change. I can't change, but I gotta change.

Mo Hamoudi 15:27

You're 20 years younger than me. Well, I'm gonna I can cut down my hours to you know your regular 40-hour weeks at work.

Karen Koehler 15:35

How many, how many how many things do you say that you were involved with?

Mo Hamoudi 15:38

Uh a lot.

Karen Koehler 15:40

Okay, it's not just a lot, it's what?

unknown 15:43

Too much.

Mo Hamoudi 15:44

Too much. So maybe I gotta figure out what I can cut off.

Karen Koehler 15:49

Are you gonna coach next year? Listen, listen, watch this, watch this.

Cutting Commitments Without Backsliding

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Oh, I'm watching. He's but if you just see those kids, you see their little hearts light up and and the joy. It's just like no excuse. I have no excuse. Can we just talk about something else? Like, not the kids.

Karen Koehler 16:17

I mean, kids and basketball is like Okay, if you don't want to give up the basketball, then what are you gonna give up?

Mo Hamoudi 16:23

I think I gotta reevaluate my professional commitments. My external professional commitments.

Mike Todd 16:29

Well, and that's what I was gonna say. Like for me, when it when it had to do with sound and and uh and working for bands, I I I had to stop. I just I just said I retired from it. And then I didn't like there were a couple bands that I still that didn't play that often that I worked for for a few years. But 10 years ago, I remember having a conversation with one of the bands that were trying to get me to do it. Like, come on, man, it's not that big a deal. You haven't done it forever. I was like, no, I can't do it anymore. Because if say you yes to them, they're gonna tell somebody else, and those guys are gonna want me to do it, and then they're gonna tell somebody else, and then suddenly all my nights are full again, you know? So I I I personally was like, I gotta make a commitment to my wife and my life, and you know, now I have a couple bands of my own that we play every once in a while, and it's not any pressure, and I don't work for anybody else. I have this job, and uh that's it.

Karen Koehler 17:29

It almost sounds when when we're when when I'm reflecting and listening to us talk that I mean, and it of course there's articles on this, that it's basically addictive behavior.

Mike Todd 17:40

Oh yeah.

Karen Koehler 17:41

And yeah, so how do you get away from addictive behavior? Well, not easily, and not by a little micro step. Um, I do the same thing that Mike does, and he's you know, I we've talked about that. I I go whole turkey and just carve stuff out. Yeah. Um, once you start going back into it, then it'll drag you back into it. And I'm unwilling to do that just as he is, because I know it'll happen. So we've tried to spare you some of this, Mo, by giving you wise advice that you're so far ignoring.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

What? Um who said I ignored it? I just got the advice. You just said think about the kids. I just got the advice. You did. You did. You just got time.

Karen Koehler 18:24

I gave you this advice like four months ago.

Mo Hamoudi 18:28

Well, I'm very good at habit forming, new habit forming. I think I'm very good at that.

Mike Todd 18:34

So um I think it's important in your situation to, like you said, balancing the professional commitments. You know, you don't have to be on multiple things. Yeah, you can have one thing and then have time to do the basketball with the kids and then have time to hang out with your family.