What Happens When You Pick the Wrong Lawyer After an Accident

When someone suffers a catastrophic injury, choosing the right attorney can be one of the most important decisions they'll ever make. But how do you know who to trust?

In this episode of Velvet Hammer, Senior Managing Partner Karen Koehler and Senior Partner Mo Hamoudi join Mike Todd to walk through a realistic personal injury scenario—from the moments after a serious collision to hiring a lawyer, dealing with insurance companies, and understanding contingency fees. Along the way, they pull back the curtain on how plaintiff's firms operate, what separates trial lawyers from high-volume settlement firms, and why insurance companies pay close attention to the attorney representing an injured client.

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Hosted by Karen Koehler and Mo Hamoudi, trial lawyers at Stritmatter Law, a nationally recognized plaintiff's personal injury and civil rights law firm based in Washington State.

Featuring Mike Todd, producer, audio engineer, and the Disembodied Voice of Wisdom & Reason.

Produced by Mike Todd and Kassie Slugić.

New episodes every Wednesday.

The Velvet Hammer™ Podcast is where trial law meets real life. Trial stories, hard lessons, unexpected laughs, and honest conversations about life inside and outside the courtroom.

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Karen Koehler
https://karenkoehler.com
https://www.instagram.com/k3thevelvethammer/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-koehler-thevelvethammer/

Mo Hamoudi
https://www.instagram.com/mo.hamoudi/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mo-hamoudi-77a38733/

Stritmatter Law
https://www.stritmatter.com

Transcript

The Crash Scenario And The Bills

Karen Koehler 0:02

All right. You are, Mike, you you've you were coming to work and you were on your electric skateboard wearing your big helmet that's rated you, you know, excellent skateboarder. You're in your correct lane, which is not on the street. You're in the are you in the bike lane?

Mike Todd 0:22

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 0:23

You're in the bike lane, going the right direction, and um a car uh wiggles off the road, slams into you, um, and you are in Harborview, you got a broken back, your head's okay. Um I mean you had a slight concussion, but you all you didn't have a major tr you know traumatic brain injury like you could have, but your help helmet saved you. Um Deb's with you, but she, you know, she's just really, really upset.

Mike Todd 0:56

And um And I'm not conscious.

Karen Koehler 0:59

Well, you you you're coming in and out, um, you're you're you're kind of in and you you have you call into work, you tell him you can't come, you don't know what you're gonna do about your job. And the police come and say that the car says that it's really your fault. It was your fault. And uh um they're not gonna cite anybody. Meanwhile, you've got about you know, fast forward you fast forwarded about three weeks, you're out of the hospital, your bills are gonna be about 200 grand. What are you gonna do?

Mike Todd 1:40

Gosh, you know, that's a tough one. I I'm lucky because I already uh I'm gonna play this like I don't know any of the stuff that I know. So I'm still kind of out of it. I'm still taking pain meds. Um you know, we're trying to figure out what we're gonna do. And one of my friends says, Hey, do you think that you should talk to a lawyer? And I go, God, I don't know what I don't have any money. I don't know how I'm gonna pay for a lawyer. I just I mean, I this is the truth. Back when I was younger, that's what I would have said for sure. If anybody ever said you need an attorney, I'd be like, I can't afford an attorney. So right off the bat, I don't even know that it's available to me, really. But let's go to, you know, another week, and the insurance company has contacted us and now we're like, Jesus, what are we gonna do?

Karen Koehler 2:40

So your friend has pointed out that there's a friend points out that the There's the guy that's on buses.

Mike Todd 2:46

Yeah. Oh, perfect.

Karen Koehler 2:47

Or the billboards.

Mike Todd 2:48

Yeah, there's buses. And I go, hey, I I see this guy's name every day. So I call them and I tell them what happened. Or maybe Deb has to tell him because I don't even really know everything that happened. Um I'm gonna assume they're gonna take my case because it's probably a pretty good one, even though the cops said that it wasn't anybody's fault. Um But now I've got a guy who's on the side of a bus who uh is taking my case and I don't really know whether I I don't know if he's a good attorney or not. I just know that he's got that I see him on buses all the time. And now he's gonna tell me what he can do.

Karen Koehler 3:36

All right, well that's let's let's take it from there. So the first issue is uh the number one, which is I can't afford a lawyer. Mo.

Mo Hamoudi 3:47

Well, I mean, you can't afford a lawyer. So you're gonna be calling somebody and and saying that.

How Contingency Fees Work

Mo Hamoudi 3:53

You're gonna say, I don't I can't I don't have any money to afford a lawyer. And how are you still able to help me? And the response will be the guy on the bus says, uh, yeah, you don't you don't have to worry about the money. We cover all the expenses. How does that work? Well, the way it works, that this is a contingency-based uh arrangement where we only recover if you do. And we will front all your expenses, and then once the case resolves, either by settlement or by verdict, the expenses are taken out of that recovery. Okay? And once they're taken out of that recovery, you get a percentage and we do. And the general agreement is one-third. That's the industry standard.

Karen Koehler 4:42

It's a little backwards. You get the recovery, the percentages are done, and then the costs are taken out, and your subrogation for your medicals and stuff like that.

Mo Hamoudi 4:51

All all the liens, all the medical bills are paid. But I want to talk a little bit about like But hold on.

Mike Todd 4:55

Let's talk about the phone. What if we don't get any money? What happens then? Do I have to pay you guys? Okay, wait.

Mo Hamoudi 5:01

Well, before before, how you come in the door matters. Because like Well, hold on, hold on. Okay.

Karen Koehler 5:08

Let's talk about the history of a contingency fee. Yeah. Why do we have that, first of all? And the answer is because no one would be able to afford to have a lawyer if you didn't. And you're normally going to sue someone that hit hit you, you can't sue their insurance company. The law doesn't allow that. You have to sue the person that hit you, and then their insurance cover company will cover it. You cannot sue their insurance company directly in the typical case. Uh or if you, you know, have you if you were medical negligence or something. You don't you don't sue the doctor's insurance company, you have to sue the doctor or the hospital entity. You have to so it's it's it's quite convoluted. It's not as easy as you think.

Mike Todd 5:49

But there is a policy reason. And the policy It is convoluted, though, I wanted to point this out because the insurance company is still making those decisions for the client, right?

Karen Koehler 5:57

They it's called a dual representation.

Mo Hamoudi 5:59

Yeah. But but there is a there is a there is a policy reason. The person that harms you, they get their attorney's fees paid because they have an insurance policy that says, hey, we'll defend you if you're if somebody comes after you. So they're they're okay. So they've got an insurance. They got an insurance. You, on the other hand, are injured, can't work, right? You're not getting any income, right? You're at home, you're in a hospital, you're in pain. You're in pain. What are you supposed to do? Go tap into the 401k and start to So these were certain truths that have always been true. And so this idea of contingency was born out of this idea that like you're not in a position to be even paying. So like we're gonna allow there to be this model.

Karen Koehler 6:40

There is not that model for any other Yeah. I mean, and the reason would be because the in the like if you had it in family law, like the the if the policy is no. Um it's not allowed in criminal law. It's not allowed uh anywhere other than plaintiff personal injury law.

unknown 6:58

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Mo Hamoudi 6:58

And b in with family law, you're not suffering like uh catastrophic injury. You're going to as a family display. Criminal law, you have the Sixth Amendment. If you can't afford a lawyer, the court's gonna appoint you one. So you're not gonna you see what I'm saying? Like these are really important nuances that people go, oh, you get contingency.

Karen Koehler 7:19

Yeah. I just want to say that. So then the second part was what happened if I don't win?

What If You Lose

Karen Koehler 7:25

And that's and that is that is a a good question. And the answer is is that ethically, the lawyer can advance your costs, but they cannot absorb those costs for you. Like so in a smaller law firm, like if it's if it was just a smaller injury and your costs are like $10,000, and costs are like filing fee, but mainly expert witness fees, getting doc uh your doctors to talk, getting depositions. Like in our cases, like an average case is a $100,000 and up of costs that we spend to get all that testimony or evidence uh handled um in a case. Well, if you lose, that is not the firm's responsibility. That is the client's responsibility. However, what most firms that can afford it do um is they they they will bill for the fee, they'll expect the fee, but they won't pursue the fee. In other words, they're not gonna make someone file bankruptcy. But we have to be careful what we promise. We cannot violate the rule for pre professional conduct, which says that we cannot just outright pay for the fee. That's why if you see the ads, it says no recovery, no fee. Um and then it would probably say in small print somewhere certain costs will apply.

Mike Todd 8:54

Exactly. Unless we have to get experts.

Karen Koehler 8:57

Yes, but almost no big law firm will ever pursue those to the point of of harming a client. Um so so those that's kind of to answer your question. So if you are injured, you should never hesitate to call a lawyer. For one thing, they're gonna talk to you for free. For the second thing, most likely it's gonna be contingency fee. And for the third thing, you're most likely never gonna be worse off than not.

Mike Todd 9:27

Yeah, that's for sure.

Karen Koehler 9:29

So let's talk about how do you know what's the lawyer that's right for you? How is what's the difference between

Call A Lawyer Early

Karen Koehler 9:35

a good lawyer? Does it mean if a T a lawyer is on TV, does that mean that they're a really good lawyer because they can pay for those ads or on the billboards or on the buses?

unknown 9:43

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

Mike Todd 9:44

But the Yeah, those lawyers on the bus, they look there's you know, there's three of them standing together in front of the Mount Rainier. They look legit to me.

Mo Hamoudi 9:52

I I do want to before you're jumping to the lawyer, but the reality, the practical reality of a consumer who's not familiar with our area of the law, who's been injured, is their first call is their family or their loved ones, right? And then the second call, once things start to kind of settle, is to their insurance person. Like the person who sells me my insurance policies, who works for insurance companies, a lovely person. I mean, I've interact with them annually. Hey, what are my rates? I'm calling them first, right? And then I'm not even the lawyer's not really on my radar until a little bit more down the line. And so, like, the first interface I think is is is your own insurance person, don't you think?

Karen Koehler 10:40

I don't know. Well, uh, you know, some people he he was Yeah, I don't know either.

Mike Todd 10:44

I don't know that that would be my first call.

Karen Koehler 10:46

He's writing a skateboard and he didn't have insurance. It wasn't an insured vehicle.

Mike Todd 10:50

Yeah, no, I'm not I'm not insured for that. Okay.

Karen Koehler 10:53

And and in addition, um the sooner you call an attorney, the better. Let's just put that out there. Like you don't pay an attorney extra on a constituency fee to represent you from the beginning versus halfway through. Some people think, well, if I can just kind of, I'll kind of manage it for a while and then I'll get an attorney involved. That's always the worst idea. You want the attorney involved, ASAP, they won't, they're not charging you any less, come in later. And this way that they will interface with the insurance companies, they will make sure that the evidence is preserved, they will make sure that you haven't signed off on anything that you shouldn't have. If if somebody needs a, you know, if some insurance or the police want to have some kind of a statement, they will be there with you. Like, don't wait to get an attorney. It's never you it never works to get your attorney earlier.

Mike Todd 11:40

Should you talk to their insurance company first? Should you talk to them without talking to your attorney? No.

Karen Koehler 11:47

All good questions, of course.

Mike Todd 11:49

So Because they're gonna try and talk to you right away, right?

Karen Koehler 11:52

Yes, they will.

Mike Todd 11:52

They'll try and get you as fast as they can.

Karen Koehler 11:54

Yep.

Mike Todd 11:54

Mr. Todd, how are you feeling?

Mo Hamoudi 11:56

Mr. Todd, how are you doing? I'm feeling a lot better. I'm so sorry, Mr. Todd.

Karen Koehler 12:00

It's called I'm so sorry for you. They're trained on how to be empathetic.

Mo Hamoudi 12:04

I know. I just want to let you know that we're gonna take.

Karen Koehler 12:08

You don't really need a lawyer. And they'll do and they're they've been sued before for telling people not to get a lawyer. So they won't.

Mo Hamoudi 12:14

So they know how to say it without saying it.

Karen Koehler 12:16

Yes.

Mo Hamoudi 12:16

Mr. Todd, this can be inexpensive, efficient, and quick.

Mike Todd 12:22

Or it can be Well, I've had this conversation before when I had a car accident. Quite burdensome. And and I didn't get it.

Karen Koehler 12:28

Agonizing.

Mo Hamoudi 12:28

The more parties we involve, the more complicated it gets, Mr. Todd.

Karen Koehler 12:33

All right. Well, so back to the law firm. So you're trying to figure out the law firm to go for, right? Yes. This is hard. Now we have AI, but you have all these law firms that are trying to get clients and they're feeding algorithms and SEO. And you know, there's some firms, including bus firms, that they're gonna pay a million dollars a year for ads. You think, well, they must be good. They can be a million dollars. Well, here's how it works: those are called high volume outfits for a reason.

Mo Hamoudi 13:04

Because they get as many calls as they can. Now wait from the consumer. I don't know any of this. What I know as a consumer, I look at it and go, hey, this advertisement is on a King County Metro bus. King County Metro Bus, the King County, the County would not let somebody advertise on their buses unless this person was a stand-up member of our legal community. Oh, look a billboard. Well, everybody can see this. The state of Washington, who oversees consumer protection laws, would allow anybody to call and say, hey, come on, look at this billboard and we're gonna put this up and this person and that. So there's a there's an advantage, right, to being out there and in the open that there's like a, oh yeah, this person can do what they can do.

unknown 13:53

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Karen Koehler 13:54

So we're not gonna bash billboard bus lawyers. But what we're gonna do is tell you what to look for in a lawyer.

Mike Todd 14:02

I don't think you uh you you started to say something just a minute ago that I think we should address first. Right. High volume firms. Just it's not bashing them to explain how they work.

Karen Koehler 14:13

Trevor Burrus, Jr. So in order to make that net to pay for that ad, and or in

How Volume Firms Handle Cases

Karen Koehler 14:19

order to get the cases, what happens is in a mill law firm, we call them mills. Kind of like puppy mills, games, you know, it's it's it's a excessive they're they're built out. Um so now they're probably gonna be using a lot more AI. Um, but they used to just have a lot of paralegals. So you would probably see a lawyer once or twice, and then your case would just pretty much be handled by a paralegal who would negotiate your settlement, lawyer would sign off of it on it, and it's over.

Mike Todd 14:47

Um and and Are you getting a okay result when you do that?

Karen Koehler 14:52

So you are if you're not what happened to you, right? You are if you had if you're not injured. A very small too bad. Yes. Yeah. Um because all they're doing is doing I hate to say this, you could do this. Yeah. You know, you're you're they want your medical bills, you want your wage loss, they want to negotiate with you, and they're gonna offer you 60, 70, at most 80 percent of what they should on a claim. We've seen all we've you know, we do bad faith, you see the manuals, their negotiation is to give you 80 percent of the value of your claim max, which just continually lowers the value of your claim. Oh yeah. Uh for everybody. The world, because if they're only paying 80 percent, then 80% of 80%, like it's all going down.

Mike Todd 15:37

Keeps going down.

Karen Koehler 15:38

Right? So it's um it's a high volume. They now, the person that you see on the bus, one of them is gonna just be running this business. But the other ones will be taking the the best cases. And and those cases will be handled by the l by the by the lawyers. So the better cases will be handled by the So if I had a traumatic brain injury They're gonna go to the bus.

Mike Todd 16:03

That's gonna that's gonna get the guy who's on the bus.

Karen Koehler 16:05

Only if the per person that hit you has insurance or you can get money from.

Mike Todd 16:10

Yes. If I if I if they don't have insurance, then I'm getting the paralegal.

Karen Koehler 16:16

They might not take you.

Mike Todd 16:17

Or they might not take it up. Yeah.

Karen Koehler 16:19

I mean the reality is, right, if you if they don't have enough insurance, let's say that they had a hundred thousand dollars insurance and no more, then the insurance company is technically right. If your medical bills are like two or three hundred thousand or more, you're why would you want an attorney who's gonna take a fee when there's not even enough to pay back your medical bills? I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't hire attorneys because I don't I think that attorneys serve a purpose. But I I think that there's a problem and we have that luxury because we are stuck up lawyers, as I've told you before. Like I'm not gonna take a fee if my cl if my client's gonna get less than me. I'm not gonna do it. And there's times and there's you're ethically, in order to negotiate down those medical bills, you can't waive your fee because you told them, look, we're gonna, you know.

Mike Todd 17:16

You've made a contract, essentially. You've agreed to get paid.

Karen Koehler 17:20

Yeah. We want you to take to sh to shave off this much percentage of your medical bill that has to be reimbursed because he had a hire a lawyer to get it. We can't then just give that money to him, although in the past they did that. Maybe, possibly, I can't remember. But I want to do everything I can right for those clients because and we've represented many of them pro bono and told them how to do it. We aren't gonna take that case. Yeah. Um, like many firms will, to get a policy limit that we were knew that we were gonna get. Like, what's the point of that? That's not what we're here for. Um, even on really serious cases, oftentimes we'll we won't take a fee off that first policy limit. It's like, well, that's a guarantee. Well, you know that policy was gonna be paid of $100,000 or $25,000. Like, why would we take a fee off that? We're gonna take a fee off everything else we can get for you. So what's important is it's less important if your life isn't on the line. Then, you know, if you want to pay for the inconvenience of having a lawyer do it and get a couple thousand dollars out of it, then you should do that. But when your life is on the line and it's the difference between you needing to live in a house that has wheelchair accessibility or having to move, or you know, your life is gonna be affected profoundly, then you really need to do some research.

Mike Todd 18:45

So you get an accident, yeah. You get better to the point where you're trying to figure stuff out. You go to talk to an attorney because you someone convinced you that that's what you need to do. And you don't want to get the guy off the bus, you want to find the best person.

Karen Koehler 19:09

Well, you'd be fine if you were gonna get the guy off the bus, but you're not gonna get the guy off the bus, you're gonna get paralegal.

Mike Todd 19:15

Do you want to go like if you want to get better than just the random attorney that you've seen advertised? Yeah. Whatever advertisement it was. Yeah. What are you gonna do to get the best result? Okay.

Mo Hamoudi 19:29

So the way I think about it is I think about restaurants. Where do you go eat, right?

How To Choose The Right Lawyer

Mo Hamoudi 19:35

And then you go eat, you go eat at uh uh uh a restaurant that's like owned by, you know, like it's a three-star restaurant or a Michelin star restaurant, you're gonna pay for a particular type of dish and it's gonna be an experience. You go to a fast food restaurant, you're gonna get a particular experience. So keep that. Let's put a bullet point here. Okay? Okay. In this model, you're paying the same fee agreement generally. One-third fee agreement, contingency fee agreement with the guy on the bus and our firm.

Karen Koehler 20:05

Well, we're I don't want to say that we're a so elitist that the guy on the bus isn't. No, no, no.

Mo Hamoudi 20:10

No, no, no. I'm not finished. I'm not finished. Let me finish. Okay. So this isn't like you're getting like a fast food uh person. You're getting the same business arrangement. Yeah. Right? So we what you're gonna do is that if you're going to the like uh a firm that is not what you call a volume firm, you're just getting advice. You're gonna give your case and say, hey, what are your thoughts? What do you think? And you're gonna get advice from the other guy. So you can make an informed choice between both both offers.

Karen Koehler 20:44

My suggestion is talk to three lawyers. Right. And in addition, where do you get these lawyers' names? Honestly, you should go to someone that you trust and talk to them, and they will have an have an idea. Yes, we get a lot of referrals from like insurance claims handlers will know your bank or Google.

Mo Hamoudi 21:04

Should you use AI? Well, you should look at reviews to inform your decision, and you take those reviews for what they are. They are like an isolated, maybe sporadic.

Karen Koehler 21:16

Look at the websites, do a little research, just like you would do. Imagine that you're buying a car. But you wouldn't just hit the button and go buy the car.

Mike Todd 21:24

I'll take it even more. Imagine you're getting heart surgery.

Karen Koehler 21:26

Okay.

Mike Todd 21:27

Okay.

Karen Koehler 21:27

But if you feel that you want to restrict it a little bit.

Mo Hamoudi 21:30

Do you want to take the first doctor that you see? But what I'm saying is that the the restaurant contrast is that you get what you see. You know the menu. You're walking in, you know the decision you're making. It's an informed one. You can't do that in this because you can't really tell the difference. I think the questions to ask are Hey, how many cases do you guys have right now? How busy are you? How much time will you be paying attention to my case? Who's going to be paying attention to my case? Will I have absolutely Access to an attorney when I need to ask questions. How is the how is the case going to be handled? I think that like starting there asking the kind of resources they're going to provide your case will help inform the decision. And then where would you suggest I go look to learn more about your firm?

Karen Koehler 22:19

Let me just give you another another point is

Why Trial Experience Moves Settlements

Karen Koehler 22:24

so many people think um I don't I don't ever want to go to trial. And so they're not gonna they're gonna they're they don't want an attorney that's that that goes to trial. Here's the reality insurance companies keep track of the attorneys and what the attorneys do. Your single single biggest driver of a settlement value, if you have an attorney, is the risk that that attorney poses to the insurance company. If the attorney never tries a case or rarely does, there is no risk. The insurance company knows that no matter what, that attorney is gonna settle the case.

Mike Todd 23:00

So they just need to negotiate as best they can.

Karen Koehler 23:04

So you want to get the gold standard is to get an attorney that tries cases, a trial attorney, because you can tell that attorney, look, I really don't want to go to trial. Maybe you'll change your mind. Maybe you won't. Um and if you don't, then but still the attorney can get, you know, as good as they're gonna get because the insurance company knows this is a trial attorney, this is a biggest threat, we are gonna have to pay 85%, you know, instead of 80 percent or whatever.

Mo Hamoudi 23:34

The only way I would push back there is is that when I worked at the public defender's office, I was a mill. I had all the cases that people could not afford to get a lawyer. I had them, and I got better outcomes than the private lawyers that were charging a lot of money. So this is why I say you can't treat the model the same. You gotta have targeted questions.

Karen Koehler 23:55

I totally disagree. You can't push back on that because being a public defender and the the politics and finances of that are very different than how insurance companies, which are, you know, money-grubbing evil institutions, uh in many respects, I'm sorry, there's some there's I just signed I just signed and got another insurance policy. I use insurance policies. I have them, I want the coverage, I get it. But when you go in there and look at what they do and how they work and how they value and what they're trying to do, they they literally know who you are, they keep tabs on all the lawyers, and they know that's a settling attorney, that's not a settling attorney. They're looking at risk.

Mo Hamoudi 24:35

Okay.

Karen Koehler 24:36

But then Capitalism is different than being a public defender.

Mo Hamoudi 24:39

But what I'm saying is that I was not known to be a settling attorney. What I'm saying is that there are lawyers in the mill models that are outliers. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Mike Todd 24:50

Oh, you're saying that you're saying that at the bus stop firm, that there are good lawyers.

Mo Hamoudi 24:55

There are good lawyers. What I'm saying is that the only way the consumer finds out what they want is to have to have direct conversation about their needs and say, these are my needs. Are you going to be available? What are your availability? So that there's no surprise at the end. But if you're going somewhere and all you're talking to is the support staff, you're not even getting access to the lawyer. That would be my first yellow red flag. Like, I want to get access to the lawyer. I want to talk to a lawyer and tell me, like, hey, tell me what you do. What's your workload like? Can you take my case? I think that that's a critical component of it. And um, so that's that's just my observation. Okay. I think that's good. That's good.

Karen Koehler 25:39

I mean, I don't feel any more comfortable confident that you're gonna get a good lawyer, Mike.

Mike Todd 25:44

I What are you gonna do?

Karen Koehler 25:48

What are you gonna do with the other? Well, just regardless advice. What are you gonna do?

Mike Todd 25:52

Well, for me, if I was gonna do that, I would have asked I would have asked if my parents or my friends, someone who was in the area that I knew, if they knew an attorney. And then I would probably go talk to the one, you know, I would call the one that they told me to. And if I'm gonna be real, I probably don't get to talk to anybody. I get to leave a message. And then they say, you know, then maybe I get a call back in a day or a couple days. Um but being who I am and who my wife is, we're gonna have at least two more of those, like you said. We're gonna have we're gonna do at least three interviews with attorneys, and then we're gonna evaluate what they said. Like, you know, did we talk to a paralegal? Did we ever talk to an attorney at all? Yeah. Did you know did when I go to throw their name in Google, are there good cases? You know, do it do I find uh websites that rate attorneys? Do they have a good rating on that thing? Any one of those things isn't what's going to make the decision. It's looking at all of those things after when you need to make that decision. For me, that's what it would be. Because you're right, right now where we were, I've talked to one lawyer, whether it's a a smaller firm or a big mill, I could just say, okay, I have an attorney now. You know, if they said they wanted to take my case, I wouldn't know if I was gonna get the best one from there. I wouldn't know that the insurance companies are gonna know right away when they get which attorney that is, whether or not they're going to have to worry about the case at all. Because that's what I feel like it is some of those times when you know the people that are on those billboards, you go, hey, I've got, you know, Joe Smith is my attorney.

Mo Hamoudi 27:53

Yeah.

Mike Todd 27:53

And the insurance company goes, Oh, great, we don't have to work do anything. You know, like Karen said, I may as well be doing it myself at that point. You know?

Karen Koehler 28:02

I think it's very confusing. I mean, there's so many lawyers, um, there's so many people vying for

Awards Badges And AI Confusion

Karen Koehler 28:08

business. There's this proliferation of places where you can pay six hundred dollars to a thousand dollars and get badges that say you're the top lawyer of what?

Mike Todd 28:18

Like, you know, I mean top lawyer of that magazine that just got made.

Karen Koehler 28:23

I mean, it's crazy.

Mike Todd 28:25

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 28:26

I mean, anytime you're paying for an award, that's not an award.

Mike Todd 28:29

Aaron Powell No, that was one of the first things I remember when I started working here. Uh we would get all the mail from those different million dollars. No, we still do kits. And and it's always, hey, you gotta get this, hey, you gotta get that. Here's your play. You gotta put this plaque on your wall. I I I mean, some of the attorneys there had piles and piles of those plaques that never made it to a wall.

Karen Koehler 28:49

I know. Well, because the attorneys are thinking, I need this to put on my website or my wall so that people will believe that I'm you know a good attorney. And but you're just buying these these.

Mike Todd 28:59

We don't know what these things are. I don't know what they just look good.

Karen Koehler 29:01

They get the big thing.

Mike Todd 29:02

I don't know what a badge from Avo means.

Karen Koehler 29:06

It's very confusing. So I, you know, uh I don't know what the answer is. I think I think you know, with the advent of AI, that's a whole nother thing. Um I don't know what I should we should we should put your situation in and find out what they tell you. We should.

Mike Todd 29:22

I think that's gonna be a good one. I've been scaring my friends with that one where we said we might have to depose AI at some point. Man, that bends people's minds when I say that one.

Karen Koehler 29:32

All right. Well, uh stay safe on that skateboard.

Mike Todd 29:34

Yes, stay safe, Mike. Okay.